From: shakarotter	Date: 18. September 2007 14:08 (UTC)		(Permanent link)

It seems that things aren't built to last anymore. I just spent 80 CDN to have the power pack in my computer replaced after it went. Plus the cost of a new power bar as the old one was fried as a result of the power pack going. I wonder how long the new one will last.

	From: schnee	Date: 18. September 2007 14:48 (UTC)		(Permanent link)

*noddles* Longer than the old one, I hope. *crosses his claws for you*

But yeah, it seems that planned obsolence has become a "feature" in many modern appliances etc.. It seems that in the past, things like this were built by companies that were still headed by and bore the names of the engineers that originally founded them and that still saw it as a matter of personal honour to build reliable, dependable products that would last, whereas nowadays, management generally seems to be little more than a plague of locusts, people who went to an expensive business school and now care about nothing but to try and make as much money as possible. :/

	From: porsupah	Date: 18. September 2007 16:54 (UTC)		(Permanent link)

In part, that's simply the cycle of consumer electronics - a product will be released, somewhat overengineered, at a higher price. Over subsequent revisions, "excess" strengths and tolerances will be loosened, in order to achieve cost reductions.

But are things really that much less reliable? I had several VCRs at one time, all with various faults - one had a dead tuner, one would chew tapes, one needed manual help in releasing the tape around the heads, and with the tape tension. Now, I've got an old CD-R that, when I last used it, was still working quite well, a DVD-R in similar condition, a nine year old PowerBook that would be fine if it had a hard drive.. even Hyzenthlay's taken a couple hard falls, with absolutely no problems.

Though optical drives are a bit special in that regard, perhaps because of the incredible tolerances required for everything to function properly. Sometimes materials used don't age as well as the manufacturer had intended - a lot of life is just an ongoing experiment, after all. ^_^

On the upside, what do you get? Laptops with 1920x1200 17" displays, Firewire 400/800, USB 2, Bluetooth, 256MB top-notch GPU, dual layer DVD-R, gigabit ethernet, 4GB of RAM, hundreds of GB of disk space, dual core multiGHz processors, all in thin cases light enough to toss into a bag. And all that will run for hours, even on one modest sized battery pack; performance enough for broadcast grade video editing, or cinematic soundtrack composition. (And even there, software's doing increasingly more - Logic Studio's one hell of a package, for instance)

I'd like to see the next-gen discs come down more quickly, but I suppose it'll be another couple years before we hit the same kind of levels as DVD-Rs did in 2005. Still, dual layer DVD-Rs are coming close to single layer, in terms of cost per GB, and less volume per TB is always a good thing.

	From: schnee	Date: 18. September 2007 17:18 (UTC)		(Permanent link)

That it is, although DL DVD are still more expensive per GB - I'm keeping an eye on those, and once they're cheaper, I'll switch over (well, assuming the drive will handle those, then), but so far, it's not worth it just for the storage space savings.

And yeah, the next-generation disks will likely take another while before both the media and the writers are affordable. :/

As for the rest... yes, computers are getting better in terms of functionality / power, that's certainly true, and they're actually getting cheaper as well (I remember an ad from the mid-80s or so where a 286 PC was advertised for 4999 DEM - which would be 2555 EUR today, but if you compensate for inflation, it was actually much more than that), but I'm just not sure about quality.

Case in point for optical drives: my first CD player, which I got in 1990 or 1991 or so (a Sony CDP-C315), still works flawlessly, for example, and - from what I know - so does my parent's first CD player, which they bought in the mid- to late 80s and which my sister used to use until a couple of years ago.

Of course, you're right that strengths and tolerances are lowered in subsequent product generations, which is probably why these still work and why my DVD drive which is only a few years old doesn't, but that's just the problem - and, for that matter, that's just what changed, too. "Back in the day", it would've been unthinkable to attempt to save a few cents (if even that much!) by tightening tolerances to the point where stuff breaks after only a few years.

It's not like you can't still get quality today as well, of course, but you have to pay a premium for it. And for people in my position, that's simply impossible - for me, it's either the cheapest or nothing at all. :/

	From: shadow_stallion	Date: 18. September 2007 19:58 (UTC)		(Permanent link)

*headtilts* Are you saying that the DL DVD burners are more expensive or the media itself?

I was just glancing over media at one of our local office supply places and the DL DVD's are about $1 while the regular DVD's range from $0.25 to $0.50. Granted it is not a huge cost difference and in some instances equal when you compare the cost per GB.

	From: schnee	Date: 18. September 2007 20:04 (UTC)		(Permanent link)

The media are. Mmm, 0,25 USD for a regular blank DVD? That's pretty sweet - you hardly ever get them for less than 0,50 EUR here. As for DL ones, those are always at least twice as expensive as regular ones, and given that they don't actually have double the capacity (8.5 GB vs. 4.7 GB), it's not worth it yet.

	From: shadow_stallion	Date: 18. September 2007 20:11 (UTC)		(Permanent link)

*nods* Yeah, several office supply places have blank DVD+R or -R for $23 per spindle of a hundred. If you manage to catch a sale you can often get them for about 4 or 5 dollars less than that. Now granted these are either store branded DVD's or Memorex DVD's but in the end does it really matter THAT much what brand is on your DVD? Now Lightscribe and printable DVD's are still often twice the price of just your standard run of the mill DVD.

	From: schnee	Date: 18. September 2007 20:27 (UTC)		(Permanent link)

No, it doesn't really matter (in fact, I've got a bunch of Memorex DVDs myself). That's neat, though. I've never even *seen* spindles of 100 DVDs here; 25 disc spindles start at about 11 EUR or so, I think, or possible 10 if they're on sale, but that's it. 50 disc spindles are twice as expensive, naturally, and often even seem to cost a bit more than that for some weird reason.

Weird, in any case. *headshakes* Hmm, checking amazon.de reveals that you *can* get better deals, though, and they even have spindles of 100 discs for 18,79 EUR. Who knew...

	From: shadow_stallion	Date: 18. September 2007 20:30 (UTC)		(Permanent link)

*chuckles* It pays to shop around. I tend to pinch pennies as the saying goes so I will always do a little online research to see who has good prices on things before I head off to the stores.

	From: schnee	Date: 18. September 2007 20:32 (UTC)		(Permanent link)

*noddles* It seems it does pay, yes. The weird thing is that I actually did use to buy blank CDs from amazon in the past, but I ultimately stopped because they weren't cheaper, especially with shipping charges added.

Seems like that changed, though.

	From: steele_the_wolf	Date: 21. September 2007 04:04 (UTC)		(Permanent link)

Yeah, I think most companies (save for some items) have switched over to a two year lifespan. In two years, if its going to become obsolete, so if they shorten its lifespan to save the consumer money, I'm kind of okay with that. It all depends on the device, for example I expect my monitor, speakers and hard drives to last much longer then my other computer parts.

However, I think a lot of it is just the companies being lazy and using poor quality and those savings aren't being passed onto us.

	From: schnee	Date: 21. September 2007 08:13 (UTC)		(Permanent link)

The decision of whether something should be replaced due to having become obsolete should be left up to the customer, though.